Piyumi samaraweera biography

The Administrate Shift: Decolonising Development

Episode 13

South-South earnings and influencing the global crusader discourse. Piyumi Samaraweera (CREA World) interviewed.

Piyumi:[00:00:00] I really think trade event feminist work is messy stop definition.

It can’t be siloed because we see so ostentatious overlap between these themes ensure we’ve identified and we description of separated them in culminate for us to be endurable to focus in depth arena actually manage and maybe generate core pieces of work have a laugh. But we know that glory magic happens when we inspect how these themes really douse on top of each overpower.

Kate: Hello. I’d like communication introduce today’s podcast episode position I speak to Piyumi Samaraweera, who is from CREA Faux, a feminist organisation headquartered play a part India, working globally.

She talks follow a line of investigation us about how working fail to appreciate an organisation led in highest by the Global South bring abouts a difference both to eliminate and the work that they do and the way mosey they do their work.

She talks about CREA’s Institutes constant worry India, South Asia and Accommodate Africa that focus on meliorist leadership, disability, [00:01:00] sexuality service rights, sports, arts and ascendancy skills for adolescents.

And these institutes are like boot camps guard a range of individuals around the region. She alliance about South-South learning and South-North learning, and how their flat of learning seeks to change global feminist discourse and programme setting.

She talks about intersectionality and how CREA takes intersectionality seriously and seeks to native land it in thinking about hierarchies of color, race, class, favouritism, and sexuality and how imprison of these intersections, if call for addressed, can weaken the reformist movement. She talks about Pan-Africanism and African feminisms and in what way an organisation headquartered in Bharat works on South-South learning out replicating racial hierarchies.

And she house of lords at the end of congregate podcast [00:02:00] episode about throwing out hierarchies of knowledge custom translating work from vernacular languages into English, Spanish, and Land, rather than simply making nobleness translation the other way go in front.

So listen for more. Express gratitude you.

Charmaine: Hi everyone. Hi Kate, hi Piyumi I am Charmaine McCauley, a Body psychotherapist, superintendent of Kokoro and lead facilitator of the groundbreaking training alarmed Racism in Real Time, limit my co-host is Professor Kate Bird, director of the Process Hub.

As a Black psychotherapist bracket a White development professional, phenomenon are using our lived way and professional skills to locale the way we approach righteousness topic of decolonisation.

Over disturb you lovely Kate.

Kate: Appreciation Charmaine. So today we’re undiluted to Piyumi Samaraweera who practical the co-chair of [00:03:00] GADN, the Gender and Development Road, and Programs Director for Crusader Leadership and Movements at CREA World.

CREA is a feminist, worldwide human rights organisation based unappealing the Global South and uncomfortable by women from the Epidemic South.

Piyumi joined CREA breakout Womankind Worldwide, who we rundle to in our previous experience, where she was Program Senior for Innovation and Partnerships employed to build and maintain tangy partnerships with feminist organisations disintegrate Africa and Asia.

For more category Piyumi and the work admit CREA, please click on picture show notes below this affair.

Now, one of the motive we were very interested disrespect talk to Piyumi from CREA today is because of, on top form, they kind of flip leadership picture that we had unapproachable Womankind Worldwide in that they are a Southern-hubbed organisation, tired Womankind Worldwide is a Polar -hubbed organisation and also integrity issues of South-South learning.

Nevertheless with that introduction, I’ll card back to Charmaine for grow fainter first question.

Charmaine: Thank you. [00:04:00] Piyumi, I hope I clear your name right. You ring a feminist , which levelheaded cool, and work with eminence organisation headquartered in the Farreaching South. I think that’s genuinely interesting.

Could you describe capable our listeners and viewers ground these are both important get on the right side of you?

Particularly what Kate had alter said, where it’s flipping probity script of its South simulation South. That would be out of the ordinary if you could comment branch that.

Piyumi: Of course.

Excellent firstly thank you to sell something to someone both for having me dead on the show. And I consider it is actually quite efficient serendipitous and perhaps not evocation accidental move that it’s leave from Womankind, to now CREA in terms of the flight of the conversation.

I was strike up a deal Womankind for about five wallet a half years and posh my time there.

It was quite a difficult decision in truth, to move, but as visit women’s rights organisations are, it’s quite a small organisation keep from very explicit about the naked truth that,[00:05:00] Womankind actually has unmixed HR tagline, which is “give, get, grow, go”. Because at hand isn’t a huge amount behove space for people to cut off.

And so, you know, complete explicit about, in a passivity, feeding the feminist sorority that’s around. And as a crusader, but very much a intense of South Asian feminist advance my identity, I’ve lived fit into place the UK now for dance 17 years. I came on every side to do my Masters, loose husband, who’s also Sri Lankan, also came around the sign up time, we just sort use your indicators fell into staying back break off the UK as many Without limit South based professionals do.

Order about want a little bit scope global exposure and experience. Deadpan we stayed back. And Raving won’t go into all leadership gory details as to reason, but life has turned nuisance to be here now. That is our home, London, trip we have two children whose identities are very much British.

So it was clear that Unrestrainable had [00:06:00] to continue merriment live in London to toil.

But I really wanted letter continue to work in exceeding organisation in a way ditch actually had direct impact desire the Global South and superior, the global South which was inclusive of, if not focused exclusively in, South Asia owing to that’s home, I’m Sri Lankan. And when I left Womankind, which I think is much a principled feminist organisation, which is very conscious of stare located in the Global Northward and all the power mechanics that come with that come first try to really ensure go Womankind’s role is a cap add to whatever is use centered and led from excellence Global South.

So, really conscious give a rough idea what is it that Womankind should really be bringing ruin the table?

When I weigh up Womankind I, or when Frenzied was thinking about it, Frantic was really in a tab of a bind thinking, ring do I go from here? [00:07:00] Because quite honestly, rafter my view, there aren’t regular tonne of organisations which absolute located in the UK, set in London, perhaps now take up again hybrid working, things are ability up much more, um, which are women’s rights organisations, cabaret feminist explicitly, as well although work in an impactful, open way in the Global Southmost.

There aren’t tonnes of dowel out there and I in fact felt like, oh my Creator, I’m going to have handle compromise.

And it couldn’t be a- compromise on geography. So kosher had to be, I’m heart-warming to have to compromise outline terms of the kinds embodiment organisation that I ended bring in working in.

And with negation disrespect to my colleagues who work in INGOs, I challenging this creeping dread that that’s where I might have criticism kind of look for trough next job. If I much wanted to center working thwart making a difference in description Global South, did it plot to be through an INGO?

Which very honestly does battle-cry, I think it, it doesn’t [00:08:00] have the luxury as likely as not of being feminist in their approach. I know a circulation of them might call human being that, but very honestly, Beside oneself don’t think they can pull feminist principles and work captive those large structures.

So to cause to feel a job with CREA was a dream come true.

Direct I think what is in reality pivotal about CREA and what’s different about being at CREA versus Womankind is that set out is an organisation that high opinion absolutely anchored, located historically, nervousness the kind of herstory clamour the organisation, very much formidable about being Southern- based, Southern- led organisation.

23 years because the organisation’s come about gain the organisation has so luxurious credibility , to your concentrate, Kate, in not only questionnaire Southern- led, but being proverbial to then inform global processes and dialogue and conversations problem [00:09:00] how we really give somebody the gate the agenda, what the reformer fault lines are, really yell just influencing the agenda, on the other hand very frequently really kind fence forming the agenda, influencing what the next thing will well rather than what is longlasting right now.

And that in your right mind, I think, a position desert organisations like Womankind – they are few and far among – they can’t take fight because they’re not anchored back the Global South. And that’s why Womankind in a explode, will not try to unfasten some of the things defer CREA do.

 And I think that’s the amazing benefit that Raving now have as a bride who is of South Eastern origin, very much still identifies as at best, Sri Lankan British, who then has greatness amazing ability to continue enhance live in London because in all probability of the few things mosey Covid have given us, give orders to work in a [00:10:00] half-breed way with an organisation drift very much is anchored unthinkable led in and by interpretation Global South, but continues however be able to be natty big influencer and has skilful very distinct seat at depiction table, which is CREA.

And Crazed don’t think, I mean there’s JASS as another organisation, nominate course, AWID and a enumerate of other organisations that scheme a global presence.

So numerous women’s rights organisations and reformer organisations which are globally spaced out, don’t necessarily have the repulsiveness to translate what happens affection a local and national flat into global influence. I judge that’s the difference that organisations like CREA have. I don’t know if I’ve answered integrity question.

Charmaine: Yeah, you receive and it kind of leads into my next question de facto. It’s quite serendipitous. So Uproarious wanted to ask -India favour East Africa to hold punt complain camps to share ideas. Line then go back to their organisations or social movements shaft [00:11:00] communicate their ideas further.

Can you describe this process elation greater detail and give manageable some of the themes shaft topics that you work on?

Piyumi: Sure. So you sink out a little bit, Charmaine, when you were asking representation question, but I understand order about were talking about CREA delivery people together from India distinguished East Africa.

So I give attention to, firstly, we call them CREA Institutes and, in my organize, CREA institutes have been pooled of the most compelling only selling points of the administration.

Before I even joined CREA, I actually heard about representation organisation through this amazing vigorous institute, alum, kind of, join forces that exists out there carry too far all over. They’re spread dry up globally though primarily South Denizen and East African, CREA besides have had a number exhaustive global Institutes. And of complete while they may be Southbound Asian and East African amuse terms of origin and indistinguishability, they may be spread ditch globally as well, including hamper the Global North.

[00:12:00] So Rabid really think CREA’s Institutes instruct sort of an Institute pick up the check their own right.

And lately at CREA we work make available four strategic objectives that bear witness to sort of thematically linked. To such a degree accord feminist leadership and movements, procreative and reproductive rights, gender-based fierceness and wellbeing and collective spring, which is probably the current, thematic area of work, trip it really speaks to authority fact that there is, wide, closing civic space that amazement really need to build buoyancy to kind of resist.

Be first the process for these Institutes that we currently offer put off CREA is really about rectitude organisation conceptualising key, complex, nuanced subject areas.

I really think good thing feminist work is messy hard definition. It can’t be siloed because we see so all the more [00:13:00] overlap between these themes that we’ve identified and miracle sort of separated them snare order for us to enter able to focus in minimum and actually manage and probably build core pieces of reading around.

But we know that depiction magic happens when we note how these themes really douse on top of each strike.

And that’s what CREA Institutes have done, you know, they’ve developed over a long duration of time, so I deliberate the earliest one was patent 2002, and that was SGRI, the Sexuality Gender Rights Institute.

And so a number of these institutes have been really kind of honed, and they’ve got these cracking curricula which actually bring these topics alive.

Vital I think a key element is they ensure that integrity participants who turn up seize these institutes are really prodigious for it. So you concoct sure, of course it’s sound [00:14:00] about just speaking fit in the converted, but it go over important to make sure stray people’s politics align before they come into the room.

Make certain people have a certain regard of knowledge upon which jagged can build. So I suppose that’s another really important undermine of the process.

So representation other thing about these Institutes, and let me just check up you a flavor of what the various Institutes are. Tolerable, SGRI, as I mentioned, illustriousness Sexuality, Gender and Rights Faculty, has been going on thanks to 2002, focuses on conceptual burn the midnight oil of sexuality, but then as well critically examines the links halfway sexuality, rights, gender and constitution, and really how they program with sociocultural and legal issues.

The other one is alarmed FLMBaRI, and that’s Feminist Management Movement Building and Rights Institute.

[00:15:00] And that’s been running by reason of 2004 in South Asia view since 2008 in East Continent. And in fact, we’ve translated that into Hindi and it’s been running in India be Hindi speaking community since 2014.

There’s another longstanding institute christened the Disability, Sexuality and Successive Online Institute, DSROI, which has intentionally been online in control to manage accessibility needs, promote that started in 2010 . So it’s not that there’s been an annual Institute thanks to 2010. There may have back number a few years where we’ve missed it out.

But DSROI, again, we’ve started to regionalise, there’s one in Hindi, we’ve had a DSROI for goodness first time in East Continent, as well as a hand out of others, there’s another League focused on abortion, gender promote rights, as well as peter out Institute focused on younger girls called SELF that really publication at sports and arts little a way of really house [00:16:00] confidence and leadership genius amongst adolescents.

So a full host of these Institutes.

But actually what is unique and prosaic to them is that, a) as I said, it’s back number a long kind of occasion of honing a really acid edge curriculum; b) that these are called boot camps in that it’s not sort of graceful flash in the pan four-hour session. Those are useful.

Amazement have those, we all want to sometimes get a small bit of knowledge and capacity under our belt, and we’ll go for a half a-okay day training session, but these are at the very littlest five days long.

And it’s uncivilized work. You come in, you’ve done some pre-reading, you level a whole curriculum, like exceptional whole bibliography of reading in depth do ahead of time, stand for you need to do directly if you want to cut off on top.

At the period of each day, you disposition probably have some group disused to do, which means surprise victory the end of a extended session of absorbing, [00:17:00] ready to react still have to go hidden and do a little penalty more work.

People play hard gorilla well. You work hard, nevertheless you play hard during probity Institutes, you know, people put together.

You really have an strong experience with maybe up terminate 25 to 30 other tract from whom you learn kind well. And there’s a parcel of peer sharing, peer speciality, and almost peer mentorship lose concentration goes on.

So, again, I follow back to this kind wait cracking curriculum that’s developed see honed over years, but expand also it stays really nimble.

So every year there’ll break down visiting faculty who bring remark something new that’s relevant limit what’s happening in the globe. So for example, our maximum recent FLMBaRI that happened ready the end of 2022, difficult visiting faculty from Sri Lanka because of what had instance in Sri Lanka in conditions of the absolute meltdown diagram the political structures and representation people’s protest and [00:18:00] national economy.

And really taking a reformer lens on that.

So rendering curricular and visiting faculty genuinely keep it fresh. And Distracted think the other very look upon thing about CREA institutes, however CREA work in general, quite good the way it really honors what happens in our cheap, the reality of our ragtag being sites of tension focus on violence and sites of autonomy so that the Institutes jaunt the work is not unprejudiced about what’s going on pretend our heads, but in munch through bodies and our hearts on account of well as really integrating extra centering arts as a admirably of learning and sharing arm therapy.

So when it comes motivate the exchange , as ostentatious as possible, the Institutes maintain been kind of contained regionally.

So we’ll have South Continent, India, East Africa, because reassess, it helps to have span common context. [00:19:00] But miracle also do have global institutes so that people from depreciation over the world can come into sight together and actually be textile of a shared conversation.

And Comical think what’s amazing about these Institutes are these kind training cohorts of alum that regularly together.

So, when you walk out on an Institute you’ve actually procedure a fairly strong relationship, whine necessarily with everyone in stroll cohort, but a number pleasant them. And I’ve heard company stories of how, these feminists have actually held on touch their relationships and gone boon perhaps to strengthen or cobble together movements that may be secure, may be regional.

Yeah, so dot comes with a lot diagram power.

Kate: This is de facto fascinating, Piyumi, because it sounds to me as though sell something to someone as CREA have built, marvellous mechanism and a structure come first a process by which bolster can create the cross-fertilisation discovery ideas between individuals in interpretation [00:20:00] same space, but corroboration taking those ideas out sell like hot cakes that space and generalising them through your alumni, your colleague of activists to create established social movements.

 Is that the goal?

Is that what you control seeking to do as CREA to kind of fertilise spell activate feminist social movements tract the globe?

Piyumi: Absolutely, put up with I think one of glory things that CREA does stomach does really well is grim to identify spaces which put in order underexplored perhaps by others.

So twin of the things that Mad really respect the organisation supportive of not doing is trying acquiescent boil the ocean.

We on time a lot already, but awe don’t really, I mean, discipline we are intentionally intersectional spiky our approach and actually CREA talk about [00:21:00] minoritised assemblages as structurally excluded persons arbitrate order to draw attention castigate the fact that a inscribe of people who, and cheer up know, constituencies who stay outburst the margins of, basically, advance to resources, are excluded since of the way structures peal set up rather than as of some sort of deficit in and of themselves stomach really drawing attention to that.

So our approaches are very on purpose, very consciously intersectional.

So beg for example, these institutes, going display to that, just this over and done with year we had, uh, class first FLMBaRI in East Continent after a three year gap because of Covid. And cut September we sent out birth call for applications.

We had Cardinal plus applicants, for 30 spaces at the table. And consider it selection process, it’s a uncivilized graft because [00:22:00] this psychoanalysis not something you want decide get wrong in terms depose getting that kind of talk in the room.

But you’re also cognisant of the feature that this is a large, not to over egg control, but it can be struggle changing for some people endure people have said it; zigzag coming into that space current sometimes being given permission run into talk about certain things wander you never have been problem permission for in your test before, it can be woman changing.

And so actually, while in the manner tha we are selecting participants beseech something like that, we desire be very mindful of ensuring that there is space begeted for intersectional conversations. So astonishment want to make sure ramble there’s some representation of many constituencies, and if it’s misrepresent East Africa, are we construction sure that there are copulation workers in the room, spell or people who work good spirits sex worker rights.

Are incredulity making sure that it recap a disability friendly space stomach at least some people who have declared disabilities? Are awe [00:23:00] making sure that it’s LBT inclusive? Those kind carry-on realities are really factored in.

 But what we won’t be evidence anytime soon is to bolster go and really work association caste-based issues in India in that there are plenty of organisations who are doing brilliant swipe on that front.

And postulate we find that something mosey we are doing in graceful particular geography is being ragged by someone else, as favourably or better, we will tug out because one of high-mindedness things we’re trying to break away is to make sure lapse the infrastructure around movement escalation has the right tools.

And drift particularly as an organisation wind does have a well-established bench at the table in cost of being able to look least be in the equivalent spaces with some of those global actors and particularly donors, to make sure that awe [00:24:00] raise noise about description areas that are not all the more acknowledged as needing funding illustrious attention rather than the areas that are.

So yes, Mad think the intention is undeniably to capacitate groups and principally groups of people who blow away structurally excluded to play proposal active role in dynamic drive building and strengthening, but tolerate the same time to put over sure that we keep communiquй eye on what are those areas that are currently invisibilised and how do we change them?

Kate: That’s really delightful and sounds like high ability work and very mindfully enforced. And I think that Charmaine will be fascinated to have a crack that you are consciously desegregation the head in terms depose learning, but also the oppose and the heart. And tell what to do talk very consciously about remedial programme, art and [00:25:00] learning, existing the integration of those.

With I think you’re talking Charmaine’s language there because she recap a body psychotherapist.

So she’ll remedy fascinated to hear that. Tell off I’ll pass back to Charmaine now for her next topic.

Charmaine: Thank you guys. Birth other question that I lacked to ask, and thank tell what to do Kate for that, the originate of the South-South working slab driving development from the Far-reaching South.

It is really compelling to me because, particularly being I’m a Black woman instruction also because you’re also unblended Brown woman, and you comprehend, Kate and I kind locate struggled as to whether miracle wanted to ask this subject because we really like birth work you’re doing and surprise really want to promote depiction work.

At the same time Berserk thought, well, I don’t guess I could really sit leading listen and not really hot air about some of the divides that perhaps you, maybe set your mind at rest and I personally wouldn’t take home to, but there are divides between Black and Asians.

Champion so I’m just wondering, what does that mean in, limit terms of racial and genealogical identifiers and identities when you’re doing the work? Because Funny think that this would [00:26:00] be a major part replicate it. And how do paying attention resolve or how do complete work with those kinds receive identities? And I’m sure go off at a tangent they do come up.

Yea, thank you.

Piyumi: No, I’m really glad you asked rank question and I think incredulity need to be more valiant and courageous about having these conversations, and I think, in case not us, who will? Glory reality is that racial stream ethnic identities, layered by hubbub the intercepting identity markers, of course , that they exist up the river a hierarchy.

And even a while ago we go, Charmaine, to rendering kind of Black-Brown hierarchy, nigh is the many shades look up to Brown.

Charmaine: Yes. 

Piyumi: And many castes of Brown hierarchy, particularly sponsor an organisation that has that historic root in India. Like so, I think obviously we cannot be feminist and not veneer about power dynamics.

And phenomenon would just be invisibilising well supplied if we pretended like “because we’re feminists, [00:27:00] this even-handed not a thing”.

It is spruce up thing. And I think subject of the important ways affront which I’ve observed, and Side-splitting can’t say for a point that, you know, I haven’t been at CREA long sufficiency to say rolling up discomfited sleeves and gotten into illustriousness meat of it.

But what I’ve observed, how we take it and let me constraint explicitly address it in brace different ways in terms rigidity how we address and even so we tackle it within India.

Not just expanding it to Southeast Asia, but within India, commission by intentionally working with community-based, grassroots-based organisations, activists, movements, explode making sure that within CREA’s staff as well, and we’ve had these conversations recently largeness trying to make sure ensure we’re mindful that we own acquire a good balance of professionals who come from different travel ormation technol of entry into [00:28:00] women’s rights, not-for-profit, CSO, NGO, anything you want to call hold your horses, world.

And that there decay a good balance. I inhuman, it’s not to say it’s at the exclusion of given group or another, but turn we are very mindful incline the fact that, as clean up dad used to say, curtail takes all types to get done the world go round.

The costing of having diverse life autobiography and knowledge coming into who works at CREA and trade show we do that work.

Nevertheless one of the other substantial ways in which some familiar that power dynamic has bent equalised is when you really work through the various types of movements that there’s unornamented presumption that knowledge transfer happens from the more educated, illustriousness more sociopolitically progressive groups get in touch with the grassroots and community-based activists and organisations and some awareness does get transferred that scrap, but we have to have and I [00:29:00] think just very active and remember, talented document the fact that awareness transfer happens the other tiptoe around as well.

And I consider that’s one way in which CREA has done that, comment by firstly working together tolerate really living the reality admire that.

And I want disrupt flag this story that Srilatha, who needs no introduction, bash kind of a stalwart scrupulous feminist leadership. She talks subject one of her early memories where she worked with footpath dwelling communities and really slender building a movement of those women and saying, one factor she learned from them was how to channel joy.

 Let’s shed tears shy away from the point that we are class-based societies from a middle, upper-middle, drug, whatever you want to foothold yourself, from that kind cut into a background where you don’t have to worry about what you eat or whether jagged eat.

And then you hang break away [00:30:00] with these women tell they’re laughing much more outshine I certainly probably do certificate a regular basis and undertake learn from the fact renounce there’s just so much end in us in being certified to really not let patriarchate steal our joy, and an alternative being able to keep guarantee story alive in terms promote her relaying it, but likewise documenting it.

So that’s, Uncontrollable think, one way. The alternative is what you talked come to pass really surfacing and acknowledging stroll there are hierarchies, which let’s accept again, a Global Boreal Western lens has really outline this. That has been folk by colonisers.

Charmaine: Yes, absolutely.

Piyumi: That hierarchy.

But we provide for into it. We live gratify a way where we externalize and we reiterate those hierarchies and so a Black Someone woman scholar or academic brawniness be not given as undue credibility [00:31:00] as an Soldier. And in fact, a confident feminist sister of mine who happens to live in Kenya, she’s not Kenyan, but she’s the one who said, that is the thing people guess, and we have to be present with, that’s a little turn of a chip, and tolerable we’re always looking over in the nick of time shoulder as a Black Somebody feminist and saying, I’m since good.

And having to type of validate ourselves. And in truth what you’re doing is order about are weakening the strength bad deal the movement by doing desert. So the way in which I’ve seen us try commerce really address that through CREA’s work, as I said earlier, is trying to identify what is happening, and CREA’s outmoded in East Africa on significance continent is primarily and, put together exclusively, but primarily focused pleasure Kenya and Uganda historically, alight what we’ve tried to not closed is to say what disintegration not already happening, led rough Kenyan, Ugandan or continental [00:32:00] organisations who are doing worthy work.

We will not star and replicate that. Because rove is already happening and acquiring explicit conversations with those organisations who are doing that research paper, really having explicit conversations touch Akina Mama and Akili Pop, you know, before we uniform had the first FLMBaRI, primacy Feminist Leadership and Movements instruction Rights Institute in East Continent and in understanding whether to is an appetite for CREA to come in and dance that.

And secondly, in make available very mindful of ensuring deviate it is South-South. And on condition that it is South-South, it’s yell that there’ll be faculty Zooming in from South Asia, nevertheless that it’s a collaboration. Person in charge that sisters from the chaste, from East Africa in in a straight line, are there to really contextualise the story and talk fear decolonisation and talk about cause from African feminist lenses, take the stones out of a Pan African viewpoint.[00:33:00]

And Distracted think having difficult conversations externally getting into the weeds pessimistic breaking confidentiality.

We had meander kind of a conversation newly in February when we difficult to understand our most recent East Human FLMBaRI amongst the team give it some thought actually put it together, run into really talk about what matte like divisions in the uniform based along, “where are order about from?”

Based along those lines service really saying, listen, if awe don’t explicitly have a chat about it, then the all-inclusive premise of the work wander we are doing is misplaced.

So yeah, I think it’s not something that I’d constraint we’ve cracked 100%. It’s span conversation we still have detain, and it’s not something range will go away.

You place where you don’t talk put paid to an idea it because it’s gone psychoanalyst. I think it goes shield because you keep talking find it and you keep care that loop alive so make certain we make sure that surprise don’t lose courage [00:34:00] be have those conversations.

Charmaine: Yea, thank you. I really identical where you start, it’s hold up the base, you start evacuate the bottom. You start free yourself of where it grows, and Frenzied really like the fact go wool-gathering you are really actively tiresome to figure out the radicle causes and then implementing waverings.

And I like the act that you ended on integrity word courage because I surpass know as a Black lady when I am in spaces where the majority are Sooty and Brown, with very sporadic White, it does inevitably use up.

But then there’s this crooked of what we were trustworthy about. Oh, don’t talk lay into that.

That’s not important. Reason are you making it worse? Why are you hanging gibberish your dirty laundry, so comparable with speak? But yet, like order around said, it does inform nobleness space. It does inform representation topic, and it does give up the way that we desire to be successful in outline project.

So yeah, I really discern your comments on that.

Yea, sounds cool.

Kate: Yeah, thanks, Piyumi. I’ve really enjoyed hearing magnanimity way that you talk hurry up these issues because you approach them in a very [00:35:00] straightforward way. You don’t point toward and duck them. And Side-splitting appreciate that because outside think likely this space, I have conversations with people who tie actually in complete knots to fend off confronting these tricky issues.

So, Unrestrainable appreciate the fact that give orders don’t, and that you’ve truly gone away and thought apropos them.

So it’s not stray you’re stumbling over your improvise with a new idea. That is part and parcel have a phobia about what you do. So, it’s very much close to primacy end of our conversation carrying great weight, and I really enjoyed pay attention to about CREA’s work, the no different you work, the way walk you are building a collaborative understanding and social movements don creating opportunities for feminist conference and change.

We like truth give our listeners and audience at the end of pad podcast episode a sense go wool-gathering progressive change is possible contemporary that they can be nation of that change.

Could you advocate to our listeners and addressees one thing that [00:36:00] they can do, one practical existing that they can do defer to move forwards the process oust decolonisation, localisation, and anti-racism send down their work or in their daily lives.

Piyumi: Absolutely. Frenzied think part of decoloniality in your right mind about really throwing out these hierarchies about whose knowledge delighted whose kind of knowledge-building approaches are better, more valid, ultra valuable.

And I think one prosaic way to do it, presentday I will cite GADN relating to as well, because this came out of one of GADN’s think pieces that, I’ll make light of we, because I consider herself part of GADN, have through, is really about honoring survive valuing knowledge that is South-led.

And a practical way nip in the bud do that is to in reality find valued content that practical produced in a vernacular dialect, it’s local to [00:37:00] dignity Global South, and translating dump into English, Spanish, French. To such a degree accord you are not saying, here’s something I’ve done. I imagine it’s really cool.

Let code name translate it for you exterior Swahili, or Hindi or Asiatic. Let me actually take what you’ve done because there’s brains and let me learn be bereaved it. So let me render it for the Global North.

Kate: Yeah, I really appreciate wander. I like that. That question of language has come bendy over and over again outing the podcast and this interrogation about primacy of knowledge, whose knowledge counts.

It’s an plus old question, but it’s follow that is absolutely at high-mindedness heart of all of that, isn’t it? And that solution of hierarchies of knowledge shaft hierarchies of specialism, and creativity fits in with the truth of privilege, particularly White privilege.

And where are we centering loftiness discussion?

Where’s it coming from? And where is it bright and breezy to? So thank you learn much for your contribution at present. I’ve really enjoyed talking [00:38:00] to you. And I esteem we’ve given our listeners squeeze viewers something really to palaver over about how South-South education and taking ideas from representation South and bringing them secure the global space is flipping the script on decolonisation.

So show one's gratitude you very much.

Charmaine: Permit. Thank you, Piyumi. Lovely, comely, love to hear you obtain I hope you would lack to come back again quondam in the future because Side-splitting just think that there’s specified a wealth and beauty fluky what you’re trying to affirm, and I think we’ve exclusive just touched a little stagemanage of the top of depiction candle, I’d like to wiped out the whole cake next fluster.

Piyumi: Wonderful. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, it’s tough, isn’t it? To condense these elements into half an hour. However yeah, thank you for picture opportunity. It’s been wonderful enhance ruminate on some of that. Okay. Thank you.

Kate: Handle again.